Prot Warrior Tanking in 4.0.1: Specs

((The information in this post has been updated and revised. Please see the newer post here: http://wp.me/pMnF3-2m ))

As I’m sure all of you are well aware by now, the 4.0.1 patch has hit the live servers. Up is down and left is right. Every class and spec has experienced significant changes, not all for the better, and Prot Warrior is no exception. While my first pass at playing Prot in a 4.0 world would seem to indicate that Prot is fine over all, it is an exceptionally different animal. The feel of the spec now hovers somewhere around “slightly off”, but hopefully I can help you get a handle on the changes. Of course, this information is going to be based on being level 80 and based on the game as it exists right now. Plenty is likely to change over the coming weeks and months, so please keep that in mind.

In this post, we’ll have a look at our talents available to us at 80, or in other words, every Prot talent and the Tier 1 rows of both Fury and Arms. Currently, you can’t get any deeper into either Fury or Arms so I won’t bother looking at the Tier 2 talents in those trees right now.

This spec is intended to provide strong threat, both single and AOE, and assumes you will be doing at least moderate raiding between now and Cata launch. It passes by some good survivability talents in favor of versatility, so please keep that in mind.

Protection:

Incite:
On first pass, this doesn’t seem like that good of a talent. With other more obvious options to pick from, I passed over Incite in my first build. Unfortunately, with the current poor state of threat generation, Incite is actually quite handy for keeping up on single target fights. It’ll mean skipping some other talents, but this one’s worth taking for now.

Ruling: 3/3

Toughness:
More armor. There isn’t a Warrior out there uninformed enough to not realize that this is an important talent. OK, that’s probably not true…

Ruling: 3/3

Blood and Thunder:

This is one of our totally new talents, and it’s a very interesting one. Basically, so long as your target has your Rend on it, Thunder Clap will refresh that Rend and spread it to every other mob that Thunder Clap hits.

Clearly this is supposed to make AOE tanking easier. However, in practice, the threat from the bleed is very minimal. It’s definitely not enough to contend with the ludicrous amounts of AOE damage some specs are doing right now. While I really like this talent, and I hope it proves more useful at 85… for now, it’s best to skip it.

Ruling: 0/2

Shield Specialization:

15 extra rage for doing something you do automatically and *often* (blocking an attack) is a very good thing in this weirdly rage deprived world we’re living in right now. More than half a rage bar for using Spell Reflect is also extremely nice. While I didn’t initially invest three into this talent, I went back and took the plunge. It helped a lot more than I expected, and if you’re skipping it, it’ll probably help you too. At 85, I’ll see how rage feels and adjust as needed. Right now, however, this one’s a go.

Ruling: 3/3

Shield Mastery:

This talent, fully specced into, takes 30 seconds off your cooldown for Shield Block, 180 seconds off of Shield Wall, and 3 seconds off of Spell Reflect. This isn’t only a strong PvE talent (and one that should look familiar as a mandatory part of pre-4.0 raiding), but it’s even a strong Prot PvP talent. This would be mandatory even if all it did was reduce the cooldown on Shield Wall. Add in Shield Block and Spell Reflect too and it’s even more obvious.

Ruling: 3/3

Hold the Line:

Every time you parry, you gain a 10% buff to both Critical Strike and Critical Block for 10 seconds. This is not only a survivability boost (Crit Block) but also a threat boost (Crit Chance). Couple this with Blade Ward (yes, I said Blade Ward) and you can really notice it working in your favor.

Ruling: 2/2

Gag Order:

Silencing an enemy caster at range with Heroic Throw and casters in melee range with Shield Bash made this a mandatory talent for anyone wanting to control enemy casters. It also lowers the cooldown of Heroic Throw by 30 seconds, making this a solid PvE and PvP talent to take. You took it before… you’ll take it again.

Ruling: 2/2

Last Stand:

Same as before… and just as vital for raiding. You *will* be laughed at for not having this. Just saying.

Ruling: 1/1

Concussion Blow:

Same as before… it’s a single target stun. It’s decently handy, but not vital… except that it is a pre-requisite for Vigilance. However, Vigilance is not what you remember it being, and is not actually mandatory for every tank anymore. More on that later.

Ruling: 1/1

Bastion of Defense:

This is what makes it so you can’t be crit. Duh, right? Right.

Ruling: 2/2

Warbringer:

Mobility is one of the biggest advantages to being a Warrior tank. There is no reason you should give that up. Also, if you ever tanked Sindy, you know how valuable it can be to remove a snare effect with Intervene.

Ruling: 1/1

Improved Revenge:

One of your primary threat abilities hits harder and also hits an additional target. Shouldn’t need to explain it more than that.

Ruling: 2/2

Devastate:

Your replacement to Sunder Armor and a Prot Warrior signature move. Absolutely mandatory.

Ruling: 1/1

Impending Victory:

The idea behind this talent is that on a fight that spends a long enough time in the sub-20% range (raid bosses), you will be able to provide some extra healing to yourself as well as boost your own DPS. Combined, these factors make a slightly safer, slightly faster boss kill after it’s hit the 20% line.

In theory, this sounds great, but at 80 there are better places to put your talent points if you’re building an overall spec like I am. If you intend to raid heavily from now till Cata, however, you may consider investing in this.

Ruling: 0/2

Thunderstruck:

This is an AOE tanking talent coupled with some synergy with Blood and Thunder. Too bad we’re not taking B&T right now, huh? Oh well. The damage boost to Thunder Clap and Cleave are still worth it and the all be it minor help with Shockwave isn’t a total waste either.

You may consider skipping this one if all you plan to do is single target tank bosses. If you want to run heroics though or handle trash, it’s a good idea to pick it up.

Ruling: 2/2

Vigilance:

Only going to say this once… so please listen up.

Vigilance no longer does *anything* to threat.

It still refreshes your taunt when the person with Vigilance is hit, and it does a 3% reduction to all damage they take. This makes it a buff you put on the other tank. In 5-mans, it is only useful if you have a melee DPS that’s frequently pulling off and taking a hit. In that case, the taunt refresh makes it easier to keep mobs off of that DPS. Otherwise, this talent is nearly useless outside of a multiple tank situation. If you intend to raid at all, this is still useful. However, if you intend to simply grind 5-mans, then take points out of this (and Concussion Blow) and put them into Blood and Thunder.

Ruling: 1/1

Heavy Repercussions:

Two points in this doubles the damage (and threat) you produce with Shield Slam when your Shield Block is active. This is *only* useful for single target tanking, and the most useful for long duration fights like raid bosses. Even then, you need to Shield Slam as soon as you hit Shield Block to ensure you get as many Shield Slams as possible into the duration of Shield Block. Assuming no Sword and Board procs, the most you can ever get in will be two Shield Slams. This can go up to three with a S&B proc, but don’t expect to ever see four.

A trick you can do with this is to pop Shield Block right at the pull of a boss, Shield Slam, and make sure you hit Shield Slam as your opening attack so you can get that second one in before Shield Block falls. This lets you slightly front load your threat on the boss, and while by no means game changing, is a slight advantage.

Unfortunately, for an overall build, there just aren’t enough points to pick this up. Again, if you plan to only tank raid bosses, grab it. Otherwise, it’s a pass.

Ruling: 0/2

Safeguard:

Since they removed the minimum distance for Intervene, this talent now works like a Pain Suppression cooldown you can use on the other tank or a group/raid member in need. This is fantastic, but there simply aren’t enough talent points right now to go around. If you find your group really needs another cooldown, then try to make this work. Otherwise, skip it for now.

Ruling: 0/2

Sword and Board:

More threat from Devastate, chance to finish the cooldown on Shield Slam, and making the next Shield Slam after that proc 100% free to use. If you don’t see why this one’s mandatory, you’re doing it wrong.

Ruling: 3/3

Shockwave:

Strictly speaking, this is not a talent you have to have. It’s pretty well mandatory if you plan to ever AOE tank anything, and having a cone stun is insanely handy for any trash that can be stunned, but Shockwave isn’t really *needed* to tank bosses. Personally, I recommend that you take it, but if you plan to only tank bosses and want to get every last shred of use out of your talent points, then you may consider skipping Shockwave.

Ruling: 1/1

Arms:

War Academy:

This is a damage boost to Heroic Strike, Cleave, Victory Rush and Slam. You only really care about two of those for the most part, but that boost is a big deal for how threat is working right now. This is especially vital if you’re AOE tanking, as the current best practice for AOE tanking involves a lot of Cleave spamming.

Ruling: 3/3

Field Dressing:

A boost to all the healing you receive. This is a fantastic survivability talent, and I really wish I had points to spare so I could take it… but I don’t. If you’re going for a strict boss tanking build, however, you should pick it up. My overall spec can not.

Ruling: 0/2

Blitz:

DPSers are impatient little bastards… you probably already know that. You may also have realized that untalented Charge does not provide enough rage to perform an unglyphed Thunder Clap. This makes getting an early AOE threat lead on trigger happy DPS very, very unlikely. The solution? Well, sadly, the solution is to both spec into more rage from Charge (which Blitz provides) and glyph into a cheaper Thunder Clap. Yes, it’s annoying. Yes, it sucks. Trust me… your life will be easier for it.

Obviously, if you’re boss tanking, this isn’t needed at all.

Ruling: 2/2

Fury:

Blood Craze:

You have a decent chance to regenerate a decent  percentage of HP every time you get hit. That’s really, really sweet… and god knows I would love to take this talent, but our threat is such crap right now compared to what DPSers can produce that we really can’t afford the points to pick this up. Makes me sad, but I had to pass this one up.

Ruling: 0/3

Battle Trance:

When you Shield Slam, Bloodthirst or Mortal Strike, you have a chance that your next ability won’t consume rage so long as that ability would cost more than 5 rage. Frankly, this is clearly a talent more built for Fury and Arms than Prot. Even on a bad day, I can’t see the occasional attack making any difference to Prot at all. You already get free Shield Slams from S&B anyway. It’s not entirely useless, no, but the points are better spent elsewhere.

Ruling: 0/3

Cruelty:

Instead of a straight Crit boost to everything, now the only thing we care about that Cruelty boosts is the crit chance of Shield Slam. Really, it’s not worth those two points.

Ruling: 0/2

For convenience, you can find this spec (along with glyph choices I’ll explain in another post) here:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LhbZZIcGdRRod0u:oV0csz0Mk

If you’re looking for a pure raid boss tanking spec, omitting all AOE tanking talents in favor of single target and survivability, then please check this one out. Please note that this spec is purely theoretical and has not been tested by me. If you feel like giving it a try and letting me know how it works, go nuts.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMZhZIMGzRRRzrh:0Voaso0Mk

Lastly, for a pure AOE/5-man tanking build that’s also just theory right now… try this:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LhbZZIfGdMRob0u:0Vocsz0kM

I can vouch that my overall build does well in both 5-mans and raids, but these other two will almost surely perform better to varying degrees in their field of specialization. I hope this has been of some help to folks. The changes in 4.0.1 have been rather overwhelming for some people!

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~ by Udiyvli on 10/18/2010.

23 Responses to “Prot Warrior Tanking in 4.0.1: Specs”

  1. Alright cowgirl, you’ve put a pretty solid summary down, but, I’m going to have to argue a few points with you. I’m not trying to be harsh, and frankly I’m glad to actually be able to debate Talents for Prot(seriously it’s not SUPER obvious!).

    First debate point, Shield Specialization, 3/3 is a bit high, if even putting points in it at all. Rage Normalization didn’t hurt as bad as people thought it could, so the bonus rage from blocks isn’t that important. The Spell Reflect bonus is extremely nice, but also situational, I say this is a 1/3 talent if you need the point. (The bonus for one point in the talent is, in my opinion, more worthwhile than spending 3 points).

    Next I say you are passing up a nice boon with Impending Victory. This is a great talent solely incase of over pulling. You have a solid chance to keep yourself topped up (especially with avoidance being at an all time high) taking a little pressure off the healer. Running with undergeared or people who are still adjusting to the changes, the mobs are dying slower, you will probably be hitting devestate in the 20% range anyway, which gives you another attack to use (which I seem to run out of at random intervals).

    I like Thunderstruck, it helps most of the threat issues I’ve seen in 5mans. Blood and Thunder at the moment feels like a negative merely because its pushing back the actual AOE threat by a couple cooldowns. What I DO like about Blood and Thunder is mixing that into a DPS Arms build (Don’t laugh, it works pretty well now) spread the bleed and increase the Overpower procs from Taste of Blood.

    Just a small note here, Warriors can solo old content like never before. I use to have to tweek a mixed spec to have a prayer at soloing Magister’s Terrace on Heroic, now only Kael gave me a real problem, mostly from being out of practice. Combining Field Dressing, Impending Victory, and Blood Craze really cranks the survivability up to 11.

    • Thanks for the input 🙂 I guess everyone’s mileage will vary. I’ve tried several specs since the patch, and the one I posted here has worked best for me. I actually find the rage normalization to be a huge pain in the rear, but I also enjoyed the “on next swing” of HS and Cleave and I know some tanks hated that. To each their own.

      AOE threat right now, at least for me (I usually only run with guildies and most of them are over or near 6K gear score), is pretty horrific unless the DPS gives me a couple seconds to build threat and collapse a pull. The only way I’ve really been able to counter wild AOE like Unholy DKs who’ve reforged into Mastery has been Cleave spamming, and I don’t seem to generate enough rage to do that without Shield Specialization. I’ve tried it with no points, and I’ve tried it with two. Three just feels more consistent for me. It also means that Shield Block + trash pull = massive rage gain. It sort of turns Shield Block into a rage boosting CD that way.

      Impending Victory was also given a test run, and really I never saw it proc in 5-mans outside of sometimes on a boss when it really wasn’t needed. Yeah, it does proc in raids much more often, but here’s the thing… If it’s a trash pull it’s proccing on, I’m fighting the DPS for threat so hard that I can’t really spend a GCD to hit Victory Rush. It does have its place on bosses, but at least as of yet, I haven’t felt like not having it has put me in any risk of dying at all.

      My personal situation right now is that my guild is mostly on break from anything hardcore till Cata. Most of what I’m doing is helping with guildies who are 5-man farming and trying to build a nest egg myself for some starter 85 blues come Cata. We are raiding still, but nothing like Heroic ICC Arthas. All that DPS my guildies tend to pull also means trash pulls in the heroic 5-mans are usually dead before I can Shockwave a second time, so… yeah not a lot of use for Impending Victory for most of what I’m doing till December 7th. Plus I don’t over pull XD My days in EQ gave me a healthy fear of death that I’ve never been able to shake, which leads to me being a very careful tank.

      On a side note, it’s absolutely viable for us to tank the original Heroic 5-mans as Fury now and possibly FoS H as well. Need to try that one. Fury spec, Fury gear… we can pull about 10K to 12K DPS, hold great threat, and aren’t even very hard to heal. At least not for a guild Disc Priest. I’m pretty sure it’s not supposed to work that way, but honestly, it’s actually faster and easier than Prot tanking right now. I mean, Whirlwind lost it’s target limit. It, in Berserker Stance, is a much stronger threat gain than Thunder Clap in Defensive Stance. That’s just sad, huh? >.>

      Should also note my Fury gear is mostly 251 stuff while my Prot is all 264 or better except the shield. Just makes it *more* sad.

    • Oh, and I do plan to try more spec tweaks. Everything is very weird right now. I also need to experiment with Mastery and see how much it actually matters now if at all.

      • How bad is your Shield? The second best PvP Shield (which has solely Stamina and Resilience on it) it only 90 honor and doesn’t require the Arena Standing it says it does to buy and equip.

      • Shield’s 251 from Funship. It’s fine 🙂 The Wrathful shield is pretty nice, but I wouldn’t gain much, and I’d lose some nice mitigation stats.

  2. As a level 61 protection warrior this patch really hurt me. Sure I can tank a single boss just fine still, but multiple mob pulls are almost impossible now. Since that is predominantly what Burning Crusades dungeons are I’m sunk unless blizzard radically alters the dungeons.

    I used to be speced into Shockwave already, but with the new talent system I can’t get it now till 70. I’m stuck using thunder clap for AoE threat, and it simply can’t get the job done. DPS classes are doing so much more damage with their own AoE attacks now that thunder clap isn’t powerful enough to compete. Sure blizzard made it so I could spread rend through tc but I can’t afford the global cool down to use rend in the beginning of a pull. I’m too busy trying to get devistate or shield slam in.

    Without damage shield any mob that I’m not hitting with shield slam ends up attack the DPS almost instantly if any AoE is used.

    And obviously the loss of vigilance doing anything to threat makes everything worse. It’s a good thing it still refreshes taunt because that’s pretty much all I’m doing now.

    • Give this a try…
      http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LZZcbGdRRodbb

      If you have rage issue, then try this one instead…
      http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LZZcfGdRRob0b

      Not having Shockwave at your level is a bitter pill to swallow. Make sue you glyph into more Cleave targets to help with the AOE threat, and you may consider also picking up glyphs for cheaper Thunder Claps (if rage is a problem) and/or wider radius Thunder Claps. All of these can help your AOE threat, but without Shockwave, you simply aren’t going to have the same level of multi-target threat as before.

      What makes me kind of sad about this post though is that BC dungeons didn’t use to be AOE fests. When they were new, they were CC fests. Some of the BC 5-mans were the most intensely CC dependent content the game had yet seen, so to hear DPS not only AOEing them down but doing so irresponsibly to boot is just extra /facepalm worthy.

      Rest assured though, it’s probably not *you* that’s causing group threat issues. It’s almost surely the DPS who can’t keep it in their pants for five seconds. the AOE plague that started with patch 3.0 has rotted the minds of a vast segment of the DPS population. Hang in there, and maybe you might even find an innocently ignorant DPS or two along the way who will listen to rational explanation of why they need to change their AOE habits.

      Oh, and the specs I linked assumed you were still 61. Sorry for the delay… couldn’t get a good internet connection at Blizzcon without paying out the nose for it. Good luck, and I’m happy to help if there’s anything else you want any advice on.

  3. So far I’ve been able to get away with a 5-man spec that drops Incite and Shield Spec for fully stacking B&T and Thunderstruck, and also fills out Blood Craze (it’s 2/3/31). Then again, I’ve got the spec set up with an eye toward doing something a bit specialist, which is soloing Outland heroic dungeons for a few acheesement points. I need the extra healing if I’m trying something crazy like that. I also took it because I wasn’t sure just how hard a time healers would have keeping me up with the 4.0 changes (the answer, apparently, is “not as much as I thought”).

    I can say that once Cata actually drops and we’re leveling again, if you’re out in the world doing quests, the Victory Rush + Blood Craze combination makes you almost unkillable. You don’t need Impending Victory in that case, as normal trash mobs won’t spend enough time under 20%, and if the “mini” VR is cocked and locked when the mob dies, you can’t get the “big” VR on the next mob, just the “mini” one.

    I haven’t had too much trouble in heroics with it, but honestly, Wrath heroics have gotten to the point where people don’t even care if the tank holds threat or not. Caster classes are doing such insane DPS right now, anything except the Icecrown 5-mans or Big Round Room are just cleared with brute power and threat management be damned. I hate it. People just refuse to give you even two seconds to ramp up a little Vengeance to increase your damage output. Cataclysm is going to be a rude awakening for them.

    • Well said and a good point about Impending Victory. Here is my spec: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Gnomeregan&cn=Zeluminati&group=1
      I am currently soloing Sethekk Halls with regularity on Heroic for the Raven Lord Mount. I did successfully do H MgT with this same build (Kael did give some problems as did the accidental pull of trash packs thanks to a patrol). I grant that my spec is kinda wibbly wobbly at this moment as I’m trying to Dungeon Tank, Raid Tank, and Solo old content with it. The survivability with Blood Craze and Field Dressing is significant.

    • Yeah, as I’ve said in the past, the only real problem with tank AOE threat in 4.0.1 is that our DPSers can’t be arsed to give us a 5 count before blowing everything up.

      I’m going to go back sometime this week and try to a B&T spec again. I really want to love this talent… I’m just not sure I have enough talent points right this minute to afford to. If they’d just make the clap itself apply the Rend effects instead of spreading an existing one, it would go from “do I really want this?” to “of course I want this!” instantly. It also wouldn’t really make it much more “OP”. I would just make it way, way more convenient to utilize.

      • Or as an alternative, change one of the Charge Glyphs to add a Rend on the target (or even add a new Glyph). Would be just as useful and far more balanced than having Thunder Clap apply it. They could call it “Glyph of Shearing Charge” or something.

        I started a new Tauren Warrior (to see how the leveling is as of 4.0.1) on Sentinel and may say hi sometime. Victory Rush at Level 5 = AMAZING!!!

  4. was tankin icc 10 today and found i had utter rubbish threat gen granted i have a 5 man spec but our main threat these days is HS and SS isnt it truyin to work out a basic rotation any hints

    • Well, off hand I’d say to check a few things first. We did lose our Expertise talent, and some stats on several items did get moved around, so if you haven’t yet, make sure you’re still at 26 Expertise and 8% hit. That’ll be your biggest threat fix you can possibly do if either are not to those caps. Our threat generation is lower per hit than before the patch, so a miss or dodge now is far, far more detrimental to our ability to hold aggro than ever before in Wrath.

      Another possible tweak to threat is getting Blade Ward as your weapon enchant. Extra Parry ties into Hold the Line which can boost threat, while Blade Ward itself has a built in automatic attack that, while minor, is still a threat gain. The glove enchant Armsman is also a possible option. While previous to 4.0.1, the thought of dropping a Stamina enchant for a Parry and 2% threat increase was laughed at, it’s a lot less silly now that so many people are struggling with threat.

      As for rotation… here’s what I tend to do for bosses in an idea situation:

      Shout buff (usually Battle since Fortitude no longer stacks with Commanding)
      Charge
      Shield Block (assuming specced into Heavy Repercussions)
      Shield Slam
      Thunder Clap
      Devastate x3
      Shield Slam > Revenge any time they’re up
      Heroic Strike any time you’re over 60 Rage
      If Rend is down, apply it.
      Otherwise, Devastate spam

      Honestly I’m not entirely sure on the Shockwave numbers, but I have been doing a Shockwave after every third Thunder Clap on boss fights just to take full advantage of Thunderstruck. It probably helps, but I’m not sure how much exactly.

      If you want, you can link your armory and I’ll give it a once over too. See if anything stands out that might help with your threat. Thanks for the question by the way. Hope I helped 🙂

  5. really need to replace my rings and neck workin on the jp now but here is the armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&cn=Vladyrmir i dunno probably way wrong but im workin on making the 264 pants too

    • Hmm… Well, I notice you’ve got a DPS throwing weapon and a ring. Not a *huge* deal these days, but wouldn’t hurt to pick up some more tanking stats in those slots. There’s a good throwing axe from the points vendor (T9) that’ll be a great upgrade for you, or alternatively you could look into the BoE tanking gun from ICC 25. Not sure how set you are for gold or what it runs for on your server, but of the BoE ICC 264 drops it’s usually the cheapest.

      I would make one gemming change… We don’t really benefit from a Nightmare Tear much. I’d replace the Tear with a Stam gem, then put a Stam/Dodge purple gem in your helm. The socket bonus is bigger there anyway (12 vs 6 for the shoulders).

      Cloak needs an enchant, the straight HP enchant is slightly better than 10 All Stats to chest, need Stam on your bracers, and personally I’d suggest swapping the boot enchant for Tuskar’s. The minor run speed increase can, at times, mean the difference between a kill and a wipe in raids (especially hard modes). It’s generally a good idea for everyone to have it regardless of class or spec.

      Not sure about weapon or shield. I’m going to assume you aren’t tanking with the fishing pole currently showing on your armory XD

      Oh and like you said, you’re about to get the 264 pants, so I’m not going to assume comment on anything there.

      Hit and Expertise are taken care of. Hmm… oh! Need to put the extra socket on your bracers 😀

      Glyph display on the armory is still all jacked up… so can’t see for sure what you’re using there. Going to assume your Primes are right since there are only three Primes that make any sense at all for Prot Warriors. Major, I’d swap Long Charge for Cleave if you’re having any AOE threat issues.

      As a side note, I’ve gone to this spec recently and have been performing well in both 5-mans and raids:
      http://www.wowhead.com/talent#L0bZhZsdGdRRodbu

      It’s a little more learning toward raid than 5-man, but it still works well for heroics. I’ve also gotten more use to taking advantage of Blood and Thunder. I’m finding that, assuming the group can keep up, it’s actually perfect for chain pulling. Just take an already bleeding mob into the next pull and Clap to spread the bleed to the new batch. Actually pretty fun.

  6. Stam stacking is why you have threat issues. Expertise, is what I have been adding and noticing a major differance. Dps can start sooner. With mastery I am running 50% block lowering Shield block is pointless when you can add it to other place. i also use heroic strike spamming keep high rage and threat it is stupid but it works until the next patch when SS gets a major buff

    • He is at 26 Expertise though, so Dodge is off the table vs raid bosses and Dodge and Parry are off the table vs everything else. More Expertise would definitely increase his threat on raid bosses, but the amount needed to push Parry off the table vs a boss is stupid high. He’d sacrifice a lot of HP to pull it off, and frankly neither of us have any input right now on how well he’s holding up damage-wise against ICC bosses. If he can lose the HP and not become too hard to heal, then yes, more Expertise is probably his best threat gain for raid bosses. It’s definitely contingent on other factors though.

      When you say “lowering Shield Block” I’m not sure what you mean. If you mean speccing for a lower cooldown, that’s not the only reason to pick that talent up. Having a two minute cooldown on Shield Wall was something we specced and glyphed to achieve pre-4.0.1 and personally, I still find it very useful for the nastier encounters (Hard Mode ICCs especially).

  7. […] good one has been the Glaivecow which […]

  8. I have to post here and put in my 2 cents.
    I’ve been doing ALOT of research and reading up on the forums. From what I gather, people are having a REALLY hard time AoE tanking groups of 4 or more. I have to say, even with the changes, that I have no problem whatsoever. Then again, I’m only level 71 right now…
    Occasionally, a mage or rogue will pull aggro off of one of the mobs…usually a simple devastate or revenge/sheild slam works to bring it back to me. Now, I know most people don’t take on Blood and Thunder, and I find that ridiculous. I’ve only Healed and DPS’d ICC and ToC…but tanking Heroics and small raids on multiple mobs usually ends up in this: (keep in mind I’m only 71). Charge, rend on first mob, tab, cleave, TC, Revenge/SheildSlam, cleave. After that it’s pretty much a glyphed revenge and cleave intermixed with some HS and VR. I find it VERY easy to hold aggro…and in fact do pretty well on the DPS charts. The rend on all the mobs is a quick way to get attention while I cleave and tab/attack each mob. Granted I need about 3 seconds before DPS starts attacking, but I most ALL the time get that as long as I stay a few steps ahead of the group. Mobs drop quickly in all my experiences with 4.0.1…maybe even faster than before. This is going to be my 5th 80 and I think I have found a winner with the Prot War, and an Arms secondary Spec. I absolutely love them. People always compliment on my tanking and in fact, I find it very easy and FUN. Now before anyone flames on my post I would just like to say I chose this forum to post on but what you guys are saying has really seemed to be the general consensus among tanking sites. This site is really cool and most informative. You guys know what you are talking about and I love constructive criticism and advice. I have always felt since the first day playing my warrior, that this was the best class and simply the most fun to play:) Opinion of course. Thanks guys!

    • Thanks for the compliments 😀

      AOE threat is a bit better pre-80, it’s true. I have a second Prot Warrior myself that just recently hit 80 and has been leveling through dungeons with a static 5-man team of guild members. When your group is made up of people about the same gear level as yourself, it’s actually not been much of a problem at all in most cases.

      Strangely, where I find the most difficulty with AOE tanking is when dealing with DPS who are equally well geared as my main. In a group of all 6K+ gear score people (I know GS is stupid… just using it as an example), the insane damage they can do far outstrips the threat I can do. Threat has notoriously not scaled with gear as well as DPS does, and that problem hasn’t changed one bit so far.

      You are right about B&T though, and my more recent post on the topic reflects my changed opinion on it.
      https://glaivecow.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/4-0-1-prot-warrior-tanking-updated/

      The spec in that post is the one I’m currently running with, and in nearly all cases, so long as my DPS gives me a moment to secure threat, I do not have a problem with AOE tanking. The days of 6K GS Frost DKs running in and popping a Howling Blast on the pull and not taking aggro is long, long gone though. That, however, is what Blizzard wanted, and is now on the AOE heavy DPSers to realize and adjust to.

  9. Well, this response is to Udiyvli. For some reason, my reply button was messing up–

    I agree with you completely. The Spec you have is actually 100% the spec I’ll be using once 80. Since my last post, I’ve reach level 78 with my Prot war and I can say that it is true: AoE DPSers are going to have to watch pulling so much damn aggro. You know what I think was the downfall of WoW? DMG meters and Gearscore. Granted I can see where damage meters play a role. If you are well geared (for understanding’s sake…6k+GS) and you can only output 3k dps….then we have a problem. I’m just saying it has always been the case with recount…that everyone RACES to be in the top of the charts…I find that ridiculous. I’d rather have overall DPS output to be a tad lower, and get a smart DPS who knows the hell to do…I haven’t had any complaints yet with tanking…but I’ve been disgusted at myself early on with tanking…”Why can’t I hold aggro on all these mobs??!?” Now I am very certain it is DPS’s problem. Anyways good post! Love the comment and I apologize ahead of time for my crazy ramblings…It’s very early and I’m sick:) Take care!

  10. I have real issues with DPS mainly, most comments I’ve been getting usually start with “stupid tank”. I’m level 70 and mosty doing SHalls at the moment. The problem is I can’t build threat because DPS blitz mobs and the pull goes everywhere. I wiped 5 times once and when i ask for time to build threat I’m ignored. What is really depessing is that once in a while you meet decent DPS or healers and by and large their calls for patience while the tans builds threat is ignored too!!!
    In the end the problem is just as much the threat generation as DPS. Blizz need to address this, surely the target is end game raids (I’m PVE) but it’s a real slog at the moment trying to get there.
    Rant over, good news is my main has started as a Tankadin and as he’s 80 the response has been good. I’ve started on HC and most groups have been very supportive.

    • Well, here’s the thing with DPS pulling aggro…

      In every MMO I’ve ever played, I’ve been a tank. In all of those games, it’s been the job of the tank to do as well as he or she can with the gear they have, and the job of the DPS to do as much DPS as they can without pulling aggro off the tank. Unfortunately, a great many people in WoW who play as DPS believe that their only job is to DPS as hard as they possibly can and, if the tank loses aggro due to that, then the tank sucks.

      Now, granted, it is possible to have a horrible tank. I’ve had random tanks before who I’ve given a very generous amount of time to build threat, and have still ripped off of them with my first attack. This was pre-4.0.1, and in most cases with Prot Pallies. So, yeah, you give a pre-4.0.1 Prot Pally a 5 second head start and still rip threat as soon as you attack… something’s wrong with the tank.

      Blizzard wants DPS to have to be responsible again. They’ve designed the Cata threat game around the concept that a good DPS is one who can brush up against the tank’s threat but not pass them. Not because the tank pulls more threat than the DPS can possibly generate themselves, but because the DPS is paying attention to what they’re doing and not just running through a rotation and making big numbers happen.

      Back in EQ, I often said that “Any DPS worth their salt can pull off of even the best tank on the server if they try hard enough”. It was true then, and it’s becoming true for WoW. Coming off of Wrath though, where threat was barely an issue and where every single mob (except for, say, Deathwhisper Hard Phase 2) was tauntable, DPSers have gotten sloppy. They’ll piss and moan and call the tanks names in Cata. They’ll also die a lot from taking aggro and probably wipe some raids too. In the end, they’ll either learn to play their role again, be kicked out of their raids/guilds, or quit playing. I’m OK with any of those outcomes.

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